OutRun – Open-source, privacy oriented, outdoor fitness tracker

27theo | 235 points | 17mon ago | github.com

apatheticonion|17mon ago

I really want this for sleep tracking.

There are so many devices, each have their own algorithm for sleep tracking and the device I pick largely depends on the accuracy of the device's sleep tracking.

However there are new apps, like Nukkuaa, an (EU only) sleep analysis app that uses any heart-rate tracker (like a bluetooth fitness chest strap) and infers sleep quality from the data.

A generic app expands what devices are available to me. Right now I use CGM tape and stick a Fitbit Charge 3 on my tricep - but I dislike the Fitbit app and if I change to another brand I cannot export my logs.

A third party app has the potential to train against more data than any individual single brand could and, with appropriate tagging, could possible offer better accuracy. Open source would be icing on the cake.

Additionally, it would be great if devices like the Fitbit Charge could be used as a bluetooth heart rate monitor that can be used on apps that consume trackers on a (presumably) standard API (like TrainerRoad, Zwift, etc).

- https://www.nukkuaa.com/en

ildon|17mon ago

I use the Oura ring [1] for sleep tracking, it's by far the best I know of for sleep. The fact that it's a ring is convenient for comfort, and very precise as it adheres well to the finger even during night movements.

[1] https://ouraring.com/raf/34be98b1fd?utm_medium=iac

JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B|17mon ago

It’s interesting but needing a subscription for sleep and heart rate analysis is a bit too much for a $400 device.

At such a price (more than my Apple Watch) I expect all the analysis to be done on the phone.

FirmwareBurner|17mon ago

Devil's advocate take: Apple can afford to give you "free" sleep tracking because it makes its money from other sources like crazy markups on hardware and 30% tax on Appstore purchases, plus other subscriptions people pay Apple for like iCloud, Apple Care, etc.

But small specialized shops like Oura can't fund constant R&D on hardware dev and sleep tracking algorithms, infrastructure, plus continuous SW patches & updates to existing customers and products, without subscriptions, because they lack Apple's other revenue streams and muscle to negociate steep discounts on HW and cloud infra, so the one-time sale fee of Oura's HW product is not enough to cover all those on-going dev costs and keep the company afloat.

Not an Oura customer or shareholder, just though I'd share some light on the costs and challenges of competing in this space. It just doesn't work without continuous subscription based revenue streams. Low margins on HW sales are not enough to fund such businesses.

greggsy|17mon ago

I’m not sure what you get with the Oura sub, but I would expect to get some form of ‘value’ in the form of services or analytics. Otherwise I’m just paying perpetual instalments for a device I thought I paid for.

Software app subs are one thing, but hardware is something else, IMO.

morjom|17mon ago

There's also the Ultrahuman Ring Air which is around the same price but requires no subscription as far as I can tell.

https://ring.ultrahuman.com/

tguvot|17mon ago

https://us.emfit.com/features/ seems to be more comprehensive

2Gkashmiri|17mon ago

Their marketing says

> research-grade sensors

Are these people really this shallow? What does that even mean

Borealid|17mon ago

It means the sensors received the same grade as the research papers of the people who wrote the marketing copy.

2Gkashmiri|17mon ago

haha good one

justinc8687|17mon ago

> Additionally, it would be great if devices like the Fitbit Charge could be used as a bluetooth heart rate monitor that can be used on apps that consume trackers on a (presumably) standard API (like TrainerRoad, Zwift, etc).

The new charge 6 does have this capability. [0]

[0](https://support.google.com/fitbit/answer/14236705)

apatheticonion|17mon ago

Fantastic! I am hoping this is an industry-wide trend

sushisource|17mon ago

This has already been the case for primarily fitness oriented GPS watches / heart-rate trackers / etc for some time. Bluetooth, but even longer using ANT+, which is quite a bit more battery efficient.

figmert|17mon ago

Not open source but Sleep as Android is a great app that integrates with many different devices to track your sleep. They also have their own devices that can help improve tracking.

exceptione|17mon ago

I understood sleep trackers are useless. Here your doctor can lend you some professional watches you can wear for 2 weeks that cost 700 eur, but those are not sold to the public. Unless things did change in the past 4 years.

And even then, they can not really measure your sleep. If you want to measure sleep, you will need to have wires on your scalp that measure what happens inside your brain.

apatheticonion|17mon ago

Studies show that some device (like the Fitbit Charge 6, Apple watch) infer sleep stages with a greater than 80% agreement compared to an ECG sleep study.

--- For primarily younger white males

But still pretty good seeing as they infer this largely from heart rate and movement.

com2kid|17mon ago

Go do an actual sleep study some time. You'll be hooked up to a ton of sensors, and in the morning a group of doctors pour over the results, and they'll basically vote to decide on what the data means. "Oh this looks like REM".

So, to calibrate a sleep tracking device, you have a person wear the device, while also doing the sleep study. You do this a bunch of times. You train some ML models to try and make the outputs from the sensor data, after processing, the same as the study data.

After some degree of accuracy you declare success.

Now, does it work? In broad strokes, yes. You can (easily!!) see the effect of alcohol on sleep quality. If you have a crap night vs a good night, sure, a wrist based consumer device can figure that out.

Actual details? Eh. I wouldn't trust the devices for anything but directional data.

The more sensors devices get, the better than ML model can be trained.

Now it has been awhile since I last worked on this stuff (I actually just sat next to the people doing the work), so maybe there is some revolutionary new technique out there, but if not, it is still ML models trying to correlate things and match them up to what a bunch of fancier sensors said during studies.

faichai|17mon ago

Typical watch based sleep trackers and even my Withings sleep pad can’t really track my sleep properly, particularly REM sleep. I think I move too much. I bought a Dreem2 EEG device that measures brain waves and it could detect my REM sleep correctly, and determined that my sleep is actually fine, not great, but good enough.

clintonb|17mon ago

You can definitely export data from Fitbit. I built an app to export intraday data to Apple Health using Fitbit’s REST API.

beardedwizard|17mon ago

How could this concept be monetized? How much would you pay?

tobiasbischoff|17mon ago

I'm in the EU and very excited that i possibly could compile and sideload apps like that to my phone soon.

voisin|17mon ago

You don’t need to side load. It is available in the App Store.

Rygian|17mon ago

Parentçs point is to compile and upload their own version.

marcellus23|17mon ago

You can do that now.